Comments for Standards of Living at http://www.newkosovareport.com , comment 1 to 12 out of 12 comments http://www.newkosovareport.com Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:04:39 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-3078 @ Blackbird Where exactly in Kosovo do you live? You do seem to be hanging around way to much in the same places. Btw. LG and Sharp fixed the LCD panel prices. And no, coffee does not cos same everywhere. In Prishtina, within 500 meters you have 3 different prices and if you drive to Ferizaj you pay again something else. Oh whatever... - rosebud Sun, 16 Nov 2008 01:25:28 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-3019 This is one of the most interesting articles I have come accross, very creative analysis and matches some of my own observed experiences throughout Bosnia. Measures or welfare, living standards and quality of life need to be scrutinised very carefully. I myself at times felt a much richer and greater sense of happiness in places where I didn't need money or material wealth to enjoy my life. What I did not notice was extreme poverty. People have developed rather elaborate coping mechanisms and much of this is due to common history and a culture of hospitability. Would love to get in contact with you some day to discuss. - Dim Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:45:51 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2945 I enjoyed reading that exposition. I certainly wasn't asking you to engage in polemics, in fact I was reacting to your piece because I'd interpreted your comments as polemic. This time around there are some of your comments that I'm happy to agree with and those that I disagree with I'm happy to accept as your thought-out point of view. I wouldn't want you to refrain from cirticising those aspects of life in Kosova that you feel uncomfortable with in the same way as I'm interested to know about what you find interesting and positive. As I said before I'm interested in reading the account of your experiences, what I was unhappy about was what seemed to be sweeping generalisations. I very much appreciate the fact that you've taken the time to go over the three questions and provide relevant and interesting answers. - Owen Sun, 09 Nov 2008 23:23:36 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2940 4. It's that last idea that I was trying to suggest in my piece. But again: I really am not interested in writing polemics, although I feel perfectly capable of doing so. I am interested in just writing vague and non-specific pieces about my experiences. If those pieces encourage debate or good ideas, that's not my concern. I didn't mean to really engage in a long diatribe on this site. I just think that there's already enough name calling and "assuming the worst" over on B92. Please know that I like Kosovo and care about it's future, but that I don't think this prohibits me from criticizing it or questioning it. If your idea of Kosovo is different than mine, I encourage you to write about it. I promise not to call you "ignorant" when I read it. - blackbird's Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:11:24 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2939 2. poverty in Kosovo, in relation to other standards of poverty. Because I am merely trying to be observational, I wanted to write something about how poverty is different here than the poverty I am used to. It simply is. I do not intend to say it is better or worse, and I am certainly not trying to paint Kosovo as some kind of nostalgic throwback to a better time. I do not think that was the point of the column on this site about tourism either. But I think that there is a basic conflict apparent in the reactions on this site between what people want from free market capitalism and how they want to present themselves in the world. When tourists come to Texas, they want horses and cowboy hats. Texans are not insulted by that, but Kosovars on this site somehow manage to be insulted by the similar suggestion made in that tourism column on this site. (By the way: that columnist was 100% correct. No one is going to drive days or fly out of their way for cafes and clubs that can be found in any other European city when they can't yet depend on electricity here. And, in order to have "free market" economies, you need to sell what buyers want, but more about that later.) Poverty is generally less excrutiating here than it is in its worst form in the States, and no one here has actually tried to oppose this observation. I would think that Americans might be insulted by this, but somehow it was Kosovars who were. I think that people on this site might be insulted by these suggestions because they wish Kosovo to be seen as a modern and thoroughly European place, in style, living standards, culture, aspirations, etc. But I do not think that this tells the whole story of Kosovo. I think that it enriches Europe by having Kosovo be what it is: a meld of both modern-European elements and other things. A place with a culture that cares for its poor. A place less monolithic then the European ideal. A place with strong family identities. Now, I also think that some of these elements have their downsides. But they are not entirely bad either, and I think that it is sad that people want to deny them. (Sometimes I feel sad because many of my young friends here have a style and taste that is completely "Fashion TV," and which does not seem to reflect the reality of life. A rich cultural life should reflect its realities, and Dolce and Gabbana do not, in my opinion, reflect the reality of Kosovo. I am not wishing for a "noble savage" vision of Kosovo; but I am wishing for a realistic one.) It is reasonable to want a thriving infrastructure and economy: I hope that this will happen for Kosovo. I do not think that it will happen easily by simply transplanting slogans about free market capitalism onto a culture that has a somewhat other model. Which leads me to the next point... 3. free market capitalism. Despite the other poster's insistence that independence signaled an embrace of this ethos, I strongly disagree that this is true. There are many people in Kosovo who love business of course, but the "free market" depends on innovation. (In other words: coffee should not cost the same everywhere. Everyone should not open identical cafes. The "free market" depends on new ideas: new approaches, new products, new marketing, etc. ) I am not saying that there is NO innovation here, but the suggestion that somehow innovation is the law of the land is simply ridiculous. I think that there are reasons that business in Kosovo will take a long time to embrace innovation. I think that business in Kosovo has a history of existing to protect society (families, inter-family ties, etc.) rather than to move society in new directions. This is a different perspective. I do not think I am insulting Kosovo by saying so, and I do not think Kosovars are wrong to want change. But I do not think that real change will come by opening another cafe. In fact, I have yet to see an example I can point to of fundamental innovation in the business sector of Kosovo, and fundamental innovation is not something I ever hear people talking about. Rather, people talk about wanting what every other free market society has. But the only way to really have that is by coming up with new ideas that those other societies don't have! Not by copying "the West," but by creating something new. - blackbird's Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:10:26 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2938 I'll try and separate the major points raised below: 1. my writing. I've tried to say this before, but I will reiterate it here: I am not interested in writing opinion pieces. I am interested in observational writing, and that is what I try to do. Surely this sometimes does reveal my shortcomings, and sometimes it probably also reveals my perception of my environment's shortcomings. This does not mean that I have a negative opinion of Kosovo: In fact I love it here. But there are enough opinion columns about Kosovo: they are everywhere and easy to find, and generally they always say the same thing. By writing observational pieces, I surely "get it wrong" plenty of times. But it's not my job or interest to "get it right:" I'm just not interested in writing polemics. My main interest in writing this piece was twofold, and I will separate them into the next two points. - blackbird's Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:08:55 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2933 No, I'm not assuming the worst about you. I've found your other posts here interesting to read as an account of what you have found in Kosova and the impact that the experience has had on you. You can't refrain from the occasional snide comment but that's tolerable when the rest of what you write is interesting and offers some insights. However this post has nothing of substance to it apart from the questions you raised. You say you're American and it's not up to you to figure out answers, but that didn't hold you back from providing hinst of answers that were a mish-mash of contradictions and variably focused prejudice. You simply didn't give the impression of having got close enough to the objects of your observations to justify your opinions. I actually find your personal take on your experience interesting but for your political views to be interesting you need more substance and consistency in your argument. It would be interesting to know more about the nature of your art project and how that has developed or been modified as a result of your experiences in Kosova. - Owen Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:16:49 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2932 I'm an American: it's not up to me to figure out answers to these issues at all. It's up to Kosovars. If you have a better perspective on these issues, I encourage you to write about it. Come to think of it, anyone ought to be able to do better than me, considering my snobbish, stereotypical, shallow, offensive, Palinesque and ignorant viewpoint. Seriously - we just met. Do you want to debate, or just lob insults and assume the worst about me? (And "Palinesque" really is the worst of them all.) - blackbird's Sat, 08 Nov 2008 14:50:28 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2921 Well you ceratinly seem to be suggesting that people in the Balkans don't suffer from homelessness or hunger - the Balkans are certainly different from much of the West if you're right there. "The climate is uniform and reliable: good for growing gardens and feeding families. The mountains are high and impenetrable: good for impeding progress but also good for preserving traditions—traditions that teach new generations the old and reliable ways of farming and feeding and living." I'm not saying that you don't raise some interesting points. You start by asking whether average income is really a useful indicator of real poverty in Kosova (Kosovo's GDP per capital is the lowest for any European nation which I presume is what you're referring to, I don't know if there are figures for the "poorest place" in Europe). You invite the reader to consider the significance of the non-monetary economy and finally you close by raising a question (unanswered) about the balance of gain or loss from the transition to a capitalist economy. But instead of looking seriously at any of those issues you roll around in a muddle of stereotyping and snobbery that sounds like it comes straight from the Sarah Palin school of social geography. Kosovars don't use electricity like people in the rest of Europe. And in any case they don't seem to pay for it. Clothing and health care are of poor quality but because it's cheap that's not an issue of poverty. You're not certain whether the urban young are affluent or simply kidding themselves with cheap and cheerful rubbish. But in the meanwhile the rural poor lead a bucolic existence in which everything they need is there for them to enjoy, including the well-kept roof over their heads and a supply of wholesome food and pocket money from the farm that is the envy of the American homeless and hungry. The questions you raise are genuinely important. I just hope some of the other contributors here are more willing to have a go at answering them properly. - Owen Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:12:10 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2901 "Pretty shallow and offensive" How so? "your assumption that Europeans are unable to grasp concepts like health poverty, housing poverty, education poverty etc." Where do I say that? Where is that in this piece? Nor was it my intention to present a rose-colored view of Kosovo. I am well aware of the problems. I was actually trying to present a view that might contrast with the typical American view by pointing out basic differences between the places: for example - the practice of begging is different. I am not advocating it. I am pointing out the difference. "and say that everything is fine and dandy is downright ignorant." Again: where do i say that everything is fine and dandy? - blackbird's Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:45:06 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2899 "The “average” Kosovar may not have to pay rent. He and she probably live in a house with an extended family. They may use little electricity and, if we can believe the reports on this, they may not pay their electricity bills anyway. Clothing and health care, while of questionable quality, is dirt cheap. Food is even cheaper, and most Kosovars prefer mother’s cooking, which makes their food even cheaper still." Pretty shallow and offensive, like your assumption that Europeans are unable to grasp concepts like health poverty, housing poverty, education poverty etc. - Owen Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:54:29 +0100 http://www.newkosovareport.com/200811031355/Blackbird/Standards-of-Living.html#comment-2879 Of your rose-tinted picture of Kosova I would like to add that personal experiences in the streets do not generally constitute legitimate references. I find it patronising and offensive to hear how you talk of begging, it may be percieved differently in the Balkans indeed i have travelled in Albania extensively and it is prevalent, but to talk as if should be the end point of a 'career' because it is acceptable in a way it is not in the West does not mean that the standards of living should not be improved vastly. The Kosovar revolution and subsequent declarations of indpendence and Constitution state a commitment to market economics and the benefits it can bring. The author sounds almost nostaligic for the authoritarian socialism that the Kosovar people fought so hard and lost so much to rid themselves of. Basically to compare the living standards of Pristina to those in the United States and EU and say that everything is fine and dandy is downright ignorant. - swanslaad Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:43:48 +0100